Dear Eric,
   Thanks indeed for your reply again. You really help me to conceive integration issues in a better way. Well I would not really want to develop a web app that everyone can use, but I would really be looking forward to an enhanced usability of the ECJ. That is why I am looking forward to doing this level of sophistication before I actually start using ECJ for my simulation. And yes getting statistics and storing them nicely for an easy analysis with Matlab-like tools is also a concern. And I am sure that will be quite useful.

In my previous mail I mentioned about AnyPoint by mulesoft. There is another set of similar open-source tools from Talend. I wonder if anyone has used them or any similar tools. There is a juju charm for Ubuntu know as RabbitMQ that addresses software integration issues. I was just wondering about their feasibility. 

So what I have in my mind is that if there is a tool that easily parrallizes, distributes and integrate various applications together nicely, it would enhance the performance of ECJ manifold.

Thanks indeed for your reply anyway, it has really helped me.

Muhammad Adil

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Eric 'Siggy' Scott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
If you're looking to integrate the tools into a larger application like, say, a web-app, then I agree that piping has an ad-hoc feel to it.  We usually just need to do experiments that don't involve end users, so piping unix tools together is par for the course.  We also could have used sockets or JNI if we wanted more direct inter-process communication.

I usually associate integration frameworks like the ones you mention as being primarily concerned with integrating complex data across a large number of applications with unique and intricate APIs.  I'm not clear on how this will help you integrate ECJ with various simulators, since ECJ will probably just treat your simulator as a single library call that computes a single fitness value.

Perhaps you are more concerned about the problem of transferring statistics information that ECJ collects on the EA's behavior back out into your other application?


On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 12:50 AM, Adil Raja <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear Eric,
   Thanks indeed for your kind reply. It has helped me develop clarity about how people use ECJ to integrate it with other software. I was really wondering how people really do such things. But I was thinking that this mechanism sounds a little ad-hoc. But its nice if it works. I am literally looking forward to this kind of dovetailing. But I want to do some serious dovetailing. 

What I have been doing since I sent this mail was that I looked up for Application Integration Frameworks that allow programmers to integrate different applications together (ECJ and MASON in this case, or some other simulator). What I found was a plethora of open source tools that can be used to achieve not only this, but also to orchesterate various parts of applications on cloud(s). One such tool is provided by and it is open source. The tool they provide is called AnyPoint platform. There are many other similar tools. A list can be found here:

The reason why I have written the above paragraph is to get some reflection from you or other members of the list on the viability of such tools. I have not used AnyPoint yet but, among other things, it boasts to allow the user to integrate objects various objects and APIs from diffeernt applications together. It sounds pretty good. I was thinking that I might be able to use it to integrate ECJ with an external simulator in a nice way, and the implementation would also not be quite ad-hoc.

I wonder what people have to say about this.

Best Regards,
Muhammad Adil

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 8:09 PM, Eric 'Siggy' Scott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Everything except for #6 (the GUI) can be achieved by writing a special objective function (i.e. by implementing the 'Problem' class in ECJ).

My group frequently uses ECJ to tune the parameters of models that have been implemented in C++.  To use ECJ with an arbitrary external simulator, what I've done is written a Problem that invokes an external process, and pipes it a list of individuals on stdin.  The external program is then responsible for decoding the genomes and returning either a fitness value, or phenotypic measurements that the Problem can use to compute a fitness value.

So, long story short, I'm not sure what specific additional "dovetailing" work was done for MASON, but most of what you describe is simple to do with ECJ and wouldn't require tinkering about with its internals more than usual.


On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:50 AM, Adil Raja <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Dear all,
   I want to use ECJ for a research project. I was wondering if anyone could provide me details about integrating ECJ with other software, written possibly in Java. I want to dovetail ECJ with another simulator that is written in Java. I saw on the website of ECJ that it has already been dovetailed with MASON, which has been cited as a sister project of ECJ, but actually it is a simulator of multi-agent systems. I want to integrate ECJ with other simulators such as the famous TORCS (The Open Racing Car Simulator). I was wondering if anyone has already tried such dovetailing of ECJ with other specific or arbitrary simulators. Moreover, I would want to know that what sort of expertise and tools would be required that would be most suitable for such an integration.

Through the integration (dovetailing), I would want to be able to achieve certain objectives. These are listed as follows:

1) Through the integration, I should be able to instantiate an experiment in ECJ using one of the evolutionary computing algorithms that are already implemented in it. 
2) The instantiated experiment should have individuals that are relevant to the agents in the simulation environment. This is to say that if the simulator is a car racing simulator, then I should be able to instantiate an experiment in ECJ, the members of which fully encapsulate the representation of the controllers of the cars. Same goes for any other type of simulator that simulates, for example, soccer players, or aircraft, or panels for solar energy systems.

Perhaps I need to elaborate on this point a little bit more. Say that we have a car simulator that can have cars run in it. The cars are normally run by the means of their controllers (or microcontrollers). Suppose that I want to evolve controllers for the car(s) object(s) using ECJ. Now if I start an experiment in ECJ with a simple genetic algorithm, or genetic programming, or any variant of these, I should be able to specify the representation of the controllers to ECJ to encode as the genotype of the individuals of my experiment.

I hope that I have explained this point well.

3) The dovetailing software should also be able to gather results and store them either in the ECJ experiment, to be used latter, or somewhere in itself from where it could be retrieved for analysis and reflection.

4) The dovetailing software should be general in nature. This is to say that it could achieve the above stated objectives for any of the evolutionary computing algorithms implemented in ECJ, and an arbitrary simulator, plenty of which are available online.

5) The software should also be able to save the states of the experiment and the simulator (if necessary) to be used at intermediate steps of experiments (evolution), and be able to pass the states back and forth between ECJ and the simulator if necessay.

6) The software should preferably have a nice GUI front-end so that anyone with minimal exposure to computer programming could invoke various types of experiments and play with them.

7) The dovetailing should also be able to leverage from the parallel processing abilities of ECJ and of the simulator, if possible.

So this message is rather large. However, I shall be thankful to anyone who could provide me hints on as to how to implement such an application integration (dovetailing) software.

I was also wondering that although it is mentioned on the website of ECJ that it is dovetailed with MASON, where could one find the implementation of that dovetailing.

Thanks for reading this through,

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Muhammad Adil


Ph.D student in Computer Science, George Mason University
CFO and Web Director, Journal of Mason Graduate Research


Ph.D student in Computer Science, George Mason University
CFO and Web Director, Journal of Mason Graduate Research